View Poll Results: What's your favorite browser?

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  • FireFox

    27 58.70%
  • Opera

    3 6.52%
  • Netscape Navigator

    0 0%
  • Mozilla

    2 4.35%
  • Safari

    3 6.52%
  • Galleon

    0 0%
  • Internet Explorer

    8 17.39%
  • Lynx

    0 0%
  • None of these, I wrote my own!

    0 0%
  • Other

    3 6.52%
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Thread: Browsers

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  1. #1

    Default Browsers

    I was just here: www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp and it prompted the question. Just curious.

  2. #2
    Senior Member FZ's Avatar
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    Firefox forever! The only time I use IE is for Windows Updates (and some poorly designed sites that happen to fail in Firefox). There's only one major gripe I have with Firefox: its DHTML performance really lags behind IE's (even with optimised builds). Apart from that, there isn't much I don't like about it. Combined with Adblock and Tabbrowser Extensions, it's the perfect browser.
    Fayez Zaheer

  3. #3
    Senior Member torrin's Avatar
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    Agreed. Firefox kicks butt when in a gui, but when I'm at a text based interface, it's links. Not lynx, links.

  4. #4
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    I'm primarily using Mozilla (except when I must use IE for a specific site, like timecards at work). I haven't switched to Firefox yet primarily because some key sites I visit still have problems with it.
    H: faigin -at cahighways -dot org
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  5. #5
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    http://www.google.com/press/zeitgeist.html

    Unfortunately, Internet Explorer continues to dominate. FireFox is good, but...
    There are 10 kinds of people in the world... those who know binary and those who don't.

  6. #6
    Senior Member SJP's Avatar
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    So I got a copy of firefox tonight and I noticed a bad bug. Instead of calculating the mouse position relative to the left edge of the browser window like you would expect they calculate the mouse relative to the right edge of the screen! So if you have a large screen say a 17" and you shrink the browser size horizontaly so that it only occupies a portion thereof the frigin mouse coordinates are off! What a stupid mistake!!! Can't test that with Firebird, because they don't allow you to change the size of the browser. Also the CSS positioning is a tad off, but not critical. So I don't share your high regard of Firefox. If I don't shrink the browser window or move the shrunk window as far left as I can the coordinate problem does not occur. I think I concur with that web-site that IE6 is the best.

    SJP

  7. #7
    Senior Member FZ's Avatar
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    Default

    I think what you might be experiencing is the fact that IE is in fact the buggy browser - in terms of web standards - and Mozilla is only "obeying" web standards.

    It is completely understandable: one develops so long on/for IE that its bugs are never seen as bugs (you learn to compensate for them) - and when another browser renders or behaves differently (whether it is correct or incorrect) it is seen as the buggy one... It's quite sad really. As a web developer I really wish the tables would turn and 90%+ people would use Mozilla instead of IE - it would make my life easier, and let me design better and more complex layouts without being bogged down by the need for IE5.x and 6.x hacks (as such I am discouraged to use anything that requires them - I totally hate using hacks).

    NOTE: I am not specifically talking about the "bugs" you mentioned (it may very well be that you are right and Mozilla isn't), but in general, I don't think there is any browser out there that can exceed (or even match) the standards compliancy that Mozilla has attained.
    Fayez Zaheer

  8. #8
    Senior Member SJP's Avatar
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    Okay, let me put it this way. What is the point of allowing the browser's horizontal dimensions to be shrunk and thus slid to possibly allow other windows to be exposed simutaneously if the browser is going to pretend like you didn't move it at all? Wouldn't it make much more sense if the browser calculated the mouse coordinates relative to the right edge of the browser window so that it always worked regardless of where it was placed? Of course. I also test my pages against many other brands like Opera, Netscape and Mozilla Firebird so don't give me that bit about developing on IE so long the bugs seem inconsequential. And I also verify my pages using the W3C utility and declare the pages as conforming to HTML 4.01 web standards. You can't implement IE hacks and get away with it. I agree that on the average Mozilla is more standards compliant. Forget the CSS positioning error. We're only talking about a few pixels here. It's the mouse coordinate issue that bothers me the most. You'd think that if a company was going to go head to head with the most popular brand they would be more careful not to allow lame brain mistakes like this one. How many people are going to download their newest version only to find out what I discovered and swear to never touch it again? I don't think expecting a company to be competant is asking too much. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot! And what's worse is that many other browsers like Netscape and even more obscure brands like k-meleon that probably don't have a prayer use Mozilla's rendering engine and will likely elicit this same buggy behavior! In Mozilla's haste they've set the industry back and I find that discouraging.

    SJP

  9. #9
    Senior Member FZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJP
    so don't give me that bit about developing on IE
    You misunderstood the tone of my post. I was in no way 'attacking' you: I was simply stating what my thoughts are on this topic (hence I used 'one develops...' and not 'you develop...'), considering the topic of discussion ("Browsers").

    As for your specific mouse position problems, I've said this previously: I have no comment. I have not experimented with that part of JavaScript/DOM. Out of interest, though, what is the code/script you are using?

    I have to respectfully disagree with your view. This is a relatively TINY "bug", that to 99% of users (read: users NOT developers such as yourself) would be irrelevant (they wouldn't even know - how many sites use mouse position scripts in a way that is critical to the functionality of the site?) I also disagree on your view on your evaluation of Mozilla as a whole because of this experience of yours - in all honesty, I think you are being totally unfair. ESPECIALLY not when you judge their competency on the fact that one piece of code fails in the browser. IE has far many, more disturbing bugs - but you are not calling it a piece of crap are you? Also, one (not YOU specifically) should look at the fact that there are so many derivative browsers based on the same rendering engine as praise to it - you don't see any derivative browsers for IE, do you? Of course not - everything for that browser is an addon, the engine remains the same. As for "Mozilla's haste" as you put it, I would respond and say that if you think Mozilla is rushed, you should take a look at IE! I've been using Mozilla Firefox for a very long time (since it was Phoenix 0.1, in fact) and it is still only on version 0.9. IE would probably have gone through 2 service packs (if not major versions) and 20 security patches in the same period, none of which would have fixed any rendering bugs - oh but wait, IE isn't being developed anymore!

    Now I am not saying Mozilla is perfect, I am just saying that IE is less perfect. And, no, I'm not on Mozilla's payroll or anything (not that they have one, I think)... I just love my Mozilla Firefox (as you love your IE6) - and this is perfectly acceptable.

    Also, though not really an issue, the IE hacks I was talking about don't actually break (W3C) validation on pages.

    In fact, I'd love to see what the "CSS positioning error" you've encountered too. Perhaps it is something in your code and not the browser? I'm sure you are aware that IE has the "broken box model" problem...

    In closing, I just want to re-iterate that I'm not attacking you personally. I am just trying to engage in (what I see so far as) intellectual debate. I have absolutely nothing against you, or your preference for browsers (I used to love IE myself).
    Fayez Zaheer

  10. #10

    Default

    Firefox 0.9.2!
    With "Tabbrowser Preferences 0.6.5" extension.


    I still use IE for Windows Update and badly coded sites.
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