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jsimmons
03-23-2006, 11:14 AM
I've been with Westhost for about seven years now. Last year, I discovered the wonderful world of javascript, php, and css.

My latest site revision uses TransMenu (javascript) for the menu system and it seems to play nice with both IE and FireFox. As for the page itself, I hate it when you're on a site and scroll the page, only to have the menu disappear. For this reason, I use "overflow:scroll;" to scroll just the actual content.

I had to play some javascript games to get around the multi-browser incompatibility with the CSS standard in order to reliably anchor the footer panel to the bottom of the browser window, and I sacrificed horizontal fluid sizing in favor of maintaining what little sanity I have left.

One word of caution - don't bother with the forums - I seriously munged them up when I tried to upgrade from 2.0.17 of phpBB2 to 2.0.19... :)

Finally, I'm not sure how "compliant" this site is, and since I'm not concerned with people looking at it from a cel phone or PDA, that condition is not likely to change.

Anyway, here's the url:

http://www.paddedwall.org/home/index.php

Comments are invited...

PeteF
03-23-2006, 11:48 PM
Comments are invited...
Hi, I'm curious if you test how the site renders at 800x600 resolution.
On a 17" monitor I have to keep the screen res at 800x600 because
going higher is too hard on my eyes. It's very inconvenient to have to
scroll from side to side on your site and I typicaly leave sites like
that as I suspect many others do too.

What I can't quite figure out is whether the designers are aware
that their sites don't render well at 800x600 if it requires scrolling
back and forth. Can you offer any insights into this? :)

---pete---

jsimmons
03-24-2006, 06:18 AM
Hi, I'm curious if you test how the site renders at 800x600 resolution.
On a 17" monitor I have to keep the screen res at 800x600 because
going higher is too hard on my eyes. It's very inconvenient to have to
scroll from side to side on your site and I typicaly leave sites like
that as I suspect many others do too.

What I can't quite figure out is whether the designers are aware
that their sites don't render well at 800x600 if it requires scrolling
back and forth. Can you offer any insights into this? :)

---pete---

The front page of the site mentions that it is designed for a minimum resolution of 1024x768. I figure that's a good "lowest common denominator" since laptops with 15-inch screens have a native resolution of 1024x768. So to answer your second question, I am fully aware that my site requires scrolling at 800x600, but I can't answer for other sites.

If my site was a corporate one, I could understand people wanting something that is more small-screen friendly, but since it's my own personal site with a small following and a lot of image files, I don't really consider the needs of the technologically-challenged. :)

My insight is based to the amount of time and energy I want to put into making the site "compliant" and "convenient" as well as the site content. I have images that I need to keep small enough in size so as not to suck up too much bandwidth, yet are larger than a postage stamp at higher resolutions. Finally, I'm a C++ programmer, not a webmaster. I dink around and consume space, but nothing I've done on my site should be considered impressive beyond acknowledging the fact that I managed cobble-together enough files to at least make it look somewhat decent while not puking on different versions of different browsers on different operating systems. :)

My recommendation is to buy either a larger 19-inch crt, or at least a 19-inch LCD. They're both fairly inexpensive nowadays. In fact, if you live in San Antonio, I'll sell you my old 19-inch CRT for $50 (I won't ship it, it's too **** heavy). It cost me $450 when it was new back in 1999, and I replaced it last year with a 19-inch LCD that cost about 2/3 that amount (and it's even cheaper now).

wildjokerdesign
03-24-2006, 12:39 PM
At a quick glance of your CSS and source code I think you could set:


.HeaderTable,
.MenuTable,
.ContentTable,
.FooterTable
{
width:950px;
border:0px;
vertical-align:top;
margin:0px;
}

To:


.HeaderTable,
.MenuTable,
.ContentTable,
.FooterTable
{
width:100%;
border:0px;
vertical-align:top;
margin:0px;
}


That would actually size the width of your tables dynamicly to what ever the browser resolution is set to and form a quick glance really would not throw anything else off. The only thing that may still throw things off is the .HeaderSubTableLeft and .HeaderSubTableRight.

I am getting a javascript error in I.E.

Line: 21
Char: 3
Error: 'menu1' is undefined
code: 0
URL: http://www.paddedwall.org/home/index.php

It does not seem to be effecting anything visually or physically on the site though. It actually seems to come up on all the pages not just the index page.

PeteF
03-24-2006, 03:34 PM
If my site was a corporate one, I could understand people wanting something that is more small-screen friendly, but since it's my own personal site with a small following and a lot of image files, I don't really consider the needs of the technologically-challenged. :)


Ok, you answered my question and no offense taken. :)
As long as you know your target audience and purposely
deisgined it for 1024x768 min res, then it's perfectly fine
to do that as far as I'm concerned.

Thanks for responding!

---pete---

PeteF
03-24-2006, 03:47 PM
That would actually size the width of your tables dynamicly to what ever the browser resolution is set to and form a quick glance really would not throw anything else off. The only thing that may still throw things off is the .HeaderSubTableLeft and .HeaderSubTableRight.


WildJ,
I'm glad you pointed that out. I design my webpages using FrontPage 2000
and typically define my tables as percentages of width rather than using
absolute width values. My method allows my pages to render fine at any
resolution. It just seems like a no-brainer to do it that way, but I just
didn't know if sites like this one were using newer software & techniques
that no longer supported the "percentages of width" method or perhaps
they were just unaware of the percentages method.

---pete---

jsimmons
03-25-2006, 06:05 AM
I've been doing HTML for about 12 years. I only recently (late last year) started trying to use CSS, javascript, and PHP. I gotta say, CSS is a great idea, but it's also the biggest pain in the butt.

Most browsers handle CSS styles differently. The two most critical being minimum/maximum height or width. IE ignors one or both settings, and FF and Opera handle them slightly differently. Percentages are useless when you don't want a page to be any narrower/wider then x pixels.

A web developer's life is crap because of all the egos involved in establishing and following standards, and people who try to understand this stuff are pretty much left to our own devices. Just google to find a css compatibility chart between all the browsers, and you'll see what I mean - at first glance, the only thing they all agree on is what "CSS" stands for.

wildjokerdesign
03-25-2006, 07:42 AM
Yes I have to agree with you that CSS can be a bit of a pain in the rear. :) I really try to find some balance between strict standards and none at all. What would really be nice if all the browser could agree on some of the basics. I.E. is the one that seems to be the worst about this but then the majority of folks are still using it so you can't ignore it.

There are some sites I have designed that I have "broken" the rules. I have one client that needs a black background. Often this is concidered bad design but it is what fits the clients needs so that is how I have coded thier site.

I just realized we have not really given you any feedback other then the width thing. Guess we kind of got hung up. :)

I like the over all look of your site. One thing that might help is digging into the javascript and finding where the height is set. At the moment when I open up your site from the link here the window is miminized in I.E. When I resize the window the height of the content window does not reset. Pretty easy for me to get it to do it just by hitting refresh but it may be something you want to tinker with at some point. I noticed some spelling errors but I am not one to talk about that... my spelling is awfull and no matter how many times I run stuff through spell check I always end up with some miss spells. I like the menu script. Seems to be compliant with all the browsers I use. Overall a nice clean look. Refreshing in when I see many sites now that have no flow at all.

jsimmons
03-25-2006, 08:28 AM
I am getting a javascript error in I.E.

It does not seem to be effecting anything visually or physically on the site though. It actually seems to come up on all the pages not just the index page.

I have the following on all the pages:



<?
include ("./pw_template.php");
drawHtmlTop();
drawHeaderTable();
drawMenuTable();
drawContentTableTop();
?>

<!-- page content goes here -->

<?
drawContentTableBottom();
drawFooterTable();
drawDocumentEnd();
?>


Doing it this way requires me to change only the content, and the actual files are smaller than if I were to include the several hundred lines of code that are encapsulated by the php functions. This explains why the error exists on all of the page.

The Actual "menu1"" Error

I use "Transmenu" for my menu system (it's a javascript menu system). Being the "lazy-ass" programmer that I naturally am, I simply modified the demo code enough to make it work on my site, and honestly never checked the javascript console to make sure it was hunky-dory. Whoever wrote the demo code declared the menu items within the scope of a function instead of globally. As soon as I moved the declarations outside the function, the error went away. I'll be updating my site with the new code sometime this weekend.

mistaegoista
10-11-2006, 05:03 PM
I also need help with the Menu1 is undefined problem in my javascript menu... I am no programmer, but I can be a bit pedantic and the error really bothers me, although it does not impede the functionality of my page. How can I locate the error or can I send my menu.js file to someone for checking? Or even better, where could I post the code?

wildjokerdesign
10-11-2006, 05:58 PM
mistaegoista, did you try what jsimmons did an move the declared menu items outside the function so they would be global? Not familiar with the code but wonder if that would be the answer for you also.

mistaegoista
10-12-2006, 09:32 AM
I would love to try that, but since I dont even know what a "declared menu items" are, I have no idea how to go about that (me IS NOT coder, IF me coder, problem solved, ELSE present state :D ).

I could post the code accross 3 posts, but that is bound to get me banned :o . So, if the site is online ('cause I have my computer off when I sleep and I am in a different time zone :) ), you can download the file from http://primzi.streznik.org/downloads/menu.js.

Thank you in advance for any help!

wildjokerdesign
10-12-2006, 06:42 PM
At the moment I am unable to access the site you linked to. Could be my connection ... I'll try again tomarrow.