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lclark
03-09-2006, 07:37 PM
i have a page i made in FP. and everything is with in the screen size, but when i publish it you have to scroll over to the right to get to the edge. how do i keep it with in the screen when i publish, are there settings i should have in the code?

Thanks
Lisa

wildjokerdesign
03-10-2006, 08:15 AM
It would help for use to see the resulting page. There are many reasons I can think of that this could happen. In fact it is possible that in one browser you have to scroll right and left and in others you would not. The times I run across this most often is when useing CSS or style setting on <div> tags and then mixing percentage and abosolute widths.

lclark
03-10-2006, 08:18 AM
mixing percentage and abosolute widths.


that sounds like it may be the problem. ill check into that

thanks for the reply

wildjokerdesign
03-10-2006, 08:27 AM
Something I keep struggleing with is that if I use tables to format a page (which is now concidered old school) and use say like 100% then all is fine. If I try to do something similiar with the <div> tag then I can have problems. Especially with I.E.

lclark
03-11-2006, 01:50 PM
so where do i put the info for the table size so it stays with in the screen no matter what the setting is at.. here is one of my sites, www.tutorialhouse.com. should i set the size only in the table or cell properties, when i use the absolute button the place ments get even more messed up. i am okayusing dreamweaver but im so comfortable with FP.

thanks alot

wildjokerdesign
03-11-2006, 03:28 PM
I don't think it is your table widths or at least I could not find anything that was set wrong in them. I don't use FP nor like it so I don't know that I can tell you specifics within the program. What I do notice is a lot of HTML that really does not need to be there which is I think a byproduct of FP. As I said the tables seem to be pretty well formed but they are set inside <div> tags that have thier alignment set to left. No reason for this aside for the fact that it compensates that the <center> tag opens the page and then everything is set to the left for the most part. :) Like I say since I don't use FP all I can really do is tell you what I see in the HTML code that does not make sense to me.

Opps I just found a <td> tag that has the width set to 1031 here is the snippeet:

<td valign="top" align="left" width="1031" height="32"><map name="FPMap1">
<area href="../../My%20Webs3/index.html" shape="rect" coords="255, 2, 440, 28">
<area href="../../My%20Webs4/index.html" shape="rect" coords="646, 1, 812, 30">
<area href="mailto:tutorialhouse1@aol.com" shape="rect" coords="444, 2, 643, 29"></map><img border="0" src="images/navbar.jpg" usemap="#FPMap1" width="860" height="31"></td>

That could be causeing problems. That more then likely is makeing I.E. use that instead of the width that was set to the <table> tag.

I take it you do not really edit the HTML manually at all but use FP to do everything? If not you might want to do a manual edit on the HTML and get rid of some of the extras. You should not need <center> to open the page. It should only be used when you want to center something (there are better ways to do this but doubt they are available to you in FP) then you can get rid of the <div> tags. It is possible that they are causeing some problems also since alignment on them is set to left.

You have used a lot of image maps I I don't see the reason for them. Most all your images are simple links. Maybe that is something FP forces on you.

Double check the widths on all the <td> tags I just spotted another one in toward the bottom where you have the WestHost text link. Also take a look at that link right now it's placement is being set by the use of about 50 or 60 &nbsp; If you intent is to have it centered then either using the <center> tag or setting the <td> it is in to center alignment would work better or even setting the <p> tag it is in to center.

I hope I am not being to hard on you. It really was not my intent I was just trying to see what I could find that may be causeing browser issues for you. :)

lclark
03-11-2006, 05:00 PM
Shawn,

You are not being hard what so every, i thank you very much for your input, i do take constructive critizism(sp?) very well, it only makes me better.

any way, as far as the image maps, thats is the only way, i think, that i can make a link in FP is to use a hot spot, but i should only have a few, since some of the links arent "hooked up" yet.

No, i do not edit my own HTML, i know about it but i guess i put to much faith into FP. I am really starting to think about learning more DW because i really do want to get into making web pages for people.

I fixed that large width for the nav bar. I had originally set the size in the image properties box. thats where i usually do my sizing.
i resized the box and published it and on my screen it looks fine but id have to have someone else check it to see if it is on thiers.

i also took out all of the nbsp's at the bottom and "centered" it.

thanks for all of your help, i appreciate it

wildjokerdesign
03-12-2006, 08:35 AM
Yes that seems to have taken care of things. You might want to delve into both basic HTML and CSS. The one reason I was able to hunt down the problem was because I started way back when :) and was pretty much reliant on knowing how to make a page in a plain text editor. I did have some WYSIWYG editors of the time but found they just did not give me the control that I wanted.

If your looking into designing for other folks then I feel that being reliant on Front Page or even Dreamweaver will limit you some. I do have Dreamweaver or MX and I would say I use it maybe 2% of the time. The rest of the time I am looking at the HTML code in EditPlus or anouther text editor. Something that has become very popular are CMS and Forum programs. I don't know of one really at this point that you are really going to be able to manipulate the look and design of the output in FP or DW.

Once you start working with your webpages in this way you will find it becomes very easy. I will sometimes use DW when I first start on a project to get the intial look that I want then move on to tweaking things. I often also use it to set up a blank table with rows and columns without any content then simply cut and past the HTML into EditPlus to further modify.

I am glad you where able to get this one working. :cool:

lclark
03-12-2006, 09:09 AM
okay, so now im really confused. i agree about front page, id like to move beyond that program, but if you say DW isnt much better then i wont waste my time with that. so how does one make a web page??? what about all of thoes templates out there to buy or download? are they any good do import into DW and then customize them. i dont have a problem learning more html and going inthere and editing. do you have the general layout in one of thoes programs but do the rest in the html?

thanks alot

wildjokerdesign
03-12-2006, 12:22 PM
Well you ask how does one make a web page. I often start with raw HTML in my text editor. Actually the editor I use even give you a "template" of sorts to use:

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE> New Document </TITLE>
<META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="EditPlus">
<META NAME="Author" CONTENT="">
<META NAME="Keywords" CONTENT="">
<META NAME="Description" CONTENT="">
</HEAD>

<BODY>

</BODY>
</HTML>

I then start codeing in what I want by inserting the appropriate HTML. Say I wanted to add an image that was linked to WestHost forums in the main page I would modify the HTML above to look like this:


<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE> New Document </TITLE>
<META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="EditPlus">
<META NAME="Author" CONTENT="">
<META NAME="Keywords" CONTENT="">
<META NAME="Description" CONTENT="">
</HEAD>
<a href="http://forums.westhost.com/images/mh_logo.gif"><img src="http://forums.westhost.com/images/mh_logo.gif" width="181" height="67" alt="WestHost"></a>
<BODY>

</BODY>
</HTML>


You can tell what I added above because I use lower case for tags as a rule and the EditPlus program inserts templates useing all Upper case on tags.

It is not so much that FP or Dreaweaver are bad it is just if you learn the HTML code then it makes it easier to figure out why something is not working the way you want it. :) Who knows maybe I am just a dinosaure and the future of web design is in such programs but that is the only way I can get a site to really do what I want.

Plus when you get to such programs as phpBB2 the way they have the template system set up you almost have to be able to read the HTML and follow it since thier template files do not really work in Dreamweaver or FP. In fact this is the first part of the main page template file for phpBB2:

<table width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" border="0" align="center">
<tr>
<td align="left" valign="bottom"><span class="gensmall">
<!-- BEGIN switch_user_logged_in -->
{LAST_VISIT_DATE}<br />
<!-- END switch_user_logged_in -->
{CURRENT_TIME}<br />
{S_TIMEZONE}
</span></td>
<td align="right" valign="bottom" class="gensmall">
<a href="{U_SEARCH_NEW}" class="gensmall">{L_SEARCH_NEW}</a><br />
<!-- BEGIN switch_user_logged_in -->
<a href="{U_SEARCH_SELF}" class="gensmall">{L_SEARCH_SELF}</a><br />
<!-- END switch_user_logged_in -->
<a href="{U_SEARCH_UNANSWERED}" class="gensmall">{L_SEARCH_UNANSWERED}</a>
</td>
</tr>
</table>

That is only the first lines of the file and it has an extension of .tpl which is why it is not readable in most WYSISYG editors with out modification to them. On top of that this is only one .tpl out of about 4 that is used for the index page of the forum so you have to kind of piece the together in your mind. I have the feeling this may all just confuse the matter more for you... I hope not... I just used that as an illustration.

It is a pretty big subject and a bit hard to cover in a single post. :)

wildjokerdesign
03-12-2006, 12:32 PM
Maybe the link to EditPlus will help. It is a shareware download so you can download and take a look at it. Open up one of the web pages you created in FP and see what it looks like as raw HTML. You may notice that in the bits I posted above things are in different colors... EditPlus will also color code the HTML wich makes it easier to see things. :)
EDIT+ (http://www.editplus.com/)

Also I thought I may share with you some of my Favorite sites I keep book marked for refrence use. There is absolutely know way my mind can keep all this info in it. :)
W3 Schools (http://www.w3schools.com/default.asp)
Complete CSS Guide (http://www.westciv.com/style_master/academy/css_tutorial/)

lclark
03-13-2006, 04:54 AM
i know its a big subject, thanks for taking the time with me, i understand 100% what your saying. when i look at the html i can understand what it means, i just wouldnt know how to write it, it looks pretty straight forward. what i was confused about was, i would like to get in to web desighn for other people and small businesses, What would i use? I imagine a knowledge of advaced html would be smart on my part.

i have FP DW and golive. do you do all of your web pages from scratch with an editor?

thanks so much

wildjokerdesign
03-13-2006, 08:50 AM
i have FP DW and golive. do you do all of your web pages from scratch with an editor?
thanks so much

Well yes and no. I will often play with layout in DW when I am starting simply because it is much faster and easier to see visually. Once I get a layout that I think will work I will then move to Edit+ and start working with it there. I find it much easier to manipulate in Edit+ and not get extra tags.

I have also started working more and more with CSS and style sheets to create the look of a page. With this approach you can almost make any basic page layout look like anything. Most modern boards and CMS programs use CSS heavily to manipulate the look of the site. It has taken my quite some time to get used to CSS and in all truth it all just did not make sense at first so I ignored it. This was a very bad idea. :)

I learn from example so I spend a lot of time examining the source code of pages when I see somthing I like and am not sure how it is done. If I run across something new I go straight to Google and start looking for information on it. I also have books that cover the basics of HTML, CSS, Javascript, Java, php, perl, and some others. These give me the refrence to look up things also. When I started my first book was Useing HTML by Tom Savola wich details how to create a page by typeing in code in a text editor. I still have it and often use it to refresh my memory. I don't know that it matter what book you get but do think it is important to have these around.

lclark
03-13-2006, 08:56 AM
i know i have an html book around here somewhere, id better dig it out. i see what your saying, i was wondering how you knew what the page looked like, i can understand doing the layout in a program then going in and editing. ive been going in and looking at the tables and getting a better understanding in my own sites.

you have cleared up alot for me. thanks alot!!!

wildjokerdesign
03-13-2006, 08:59 AM
Your welcome.... keep plugging along. If you run into something you can't sort out give us a holler and we will see if we can help. :)

lclark
03-13-2006, 09:18 AM
you got . thank you so much!!!

rolling
09-19-2006, 06:27 AM
Lisa

I ran your web site through the W3C checker (http://validator.w3.org/) and it came up with 16 errors for the planethi-fi. God bless Microsoft - they never stick to standards!

Possible freeware replacements for FrontPage and Dreamweaver are listed below. Try them all and use the one you like best (or indeed a combination). My personal favourite is 1stPage 2000 as that's what I grew up with, although the Trellian and Nvu editors look good. However, 1stPage is 6 years old and has been superceded officially by the 2006 version (which costs $60). You can still download the 2000 version from vodoofiles (http://www.voodoofiles.com/4836).

Trellian Webpage (http://www.trellian.com/webpage/index.html)

NVU (http://www.nvu.com/index.php)

PageBreeze. http://www.pagebreeze.com/ -- very similar to Frontpage Express.

WebBuilder (http://www.pablovandermeer.nl/web_builder.html) "One way" - cannot import existing HTML. Produces clunky code. IMHO AVOID

WebDwarf (http://www.virtualmechanics.com/products/dwarf/) . Note this is also a "one way" program but at least it uses compliant CSS for layout. This can produce sophisticated effects not possible with the two above BUT older browsers may not render the page correctly so be judicious with "special effects."


Apparently, if you combine WebDwarf with PSPad's feature for cleaning and tidying up HTML, you've got yourself a potent combo although there is no reason why you shouldn't combine PSPad and TopStyle with either Trellian or NVU. PSPad will also reformat the internal CSS. You can then copy and paste this to a separate file for use as external stylesheet. For a site with multiple pages, that ensures consistency of look across your site. You can then tweak this stylesheet with TopStyle Lite (also freeware) at any time to instantly change the look and feel of your entire site.

PSPad (Programmer's Editor) (http://www.pspad.com/en/download.php)

Topstyle Lite (CSS editor) (http://www.newsgator.com/NGOLProduct.aspx?ProdId=TopStyle&ProdView=lite)


Richard