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View Full Version : Need help with FP 2000 component (hover buttons don't work)



carliniinc
02-21-2005, 08:07 AM
build a website with FP 2000 using the component (hover buttons) install feature to create link buttons. I published the pages to westhost and also had several freinds look at the site and check for functionality. Results:
West host says the site works fine
User running Win 98SE says site works fine. User running XP says buttons don't work. Client 9unknown OS) says buttons don't work. Please look at this location and let me know if the site works for you and is so what OS you are using or if you know what is causing this to be a problems I need all the help I can get. I believe the hover buttons are jave applets and that jave has to be active on the web browser that is being used that is all I suspect may be causing the problem.

wildjokerdesign
02-21-2005, 06:33 PM
Where do you want us to look? I couldn't find a link.

carliniinc
02-22-2005, 08:11 AM
Oops, sorry about that. the site is www.carliniinc.com/test I have some additional information it seems that the two users that can't get the buttons to work are using WIndows XP. We went through the internet options for one user and made sure all JAVA support was enabled. It didn't help the situation. Thanks for responding and all the help is greatly appreciated.
Craig

sunzon
02-22-2005, 09:04 AM
I tried your buttons, and they don't work.

I am using XP and IE6 and java applets are enabled (I have a webpage myself with applets that works).

It seems to me your call lines:
<applet code="fphover.class" codebase="./" width="80" height="24">
should read:
<applet code="fphover.class" codebase="../" width="80" height="24">
if the "fphover.class" is at the http://www.carliniinc.com/ level.


Of course you gave us a test page and you root page is "under construction".
If you move the index.html file in directory "test" to your root ("http://www.carliniinc.com/") and place the file "fphover.class" there, then your applet call should not include the codebase parameter at all, viz:
<applet code="fphover.class" width="80" height="24">

Why it would work under win98se etc baffles me.

hth

carliniinc
02-23-2005, 08:14 AM
HTH, thanks a bunch for the help. I am using the test site before going public to make sure all works ok. I am going to add the extra "." in the codebase parameter and see if that makes it work. I'll republish it to the test site and ask forum members and friends to test for me so I get broad coverage of the OS and the various browsers. If it works then I understand from your post that I need to move all the files and hphover.class to the root directory and remove the codebase parameter all together.

It's a shame there isn't better documentation with front page on their components.

I can't thank you enoughfor the help. Before your post I was preparing to rebuild all the pages and remove the java applets which makes the site pretty blah but at least I was hoping to get it to work.

Craig

carliniinc
02-23-2005, 08:44 AM
HTH, et al, In correcting the applet code base parameter in the index page I also note that of the six other pages with hover buttons some have the codebase parameter and some do not. Is this a problem with front page publishing to the host site? Secondly for root directory publishing do I change all the applet code in all pages to eliminate the codebase parameter or just the index (home) page. I am assuming from the help that HTH provided that the codebase parameter is related to the directory levels and therefore if all the files are in the root directory there is no need for the codebase parameter in the applet.

sunzon
02-23-2005, 09:50 AM
The parameter codebase just tells the page where the applet "fphover.class" is located, relative to the current page.
If the applet is located in the same directory as the page, there is no need to specify codebase.

Your test page is in a directory below the root, and you have presumably placed the file "fphover.class" at the root.
So in your test page, you will specify code base to tell the applet the code is one level up ("../").
When you move your test page up to the root level, you can delete the codebase parameter, because the code is at the same level as the page.

For all your other pages, just consider where they are located relative to where the file "fphover.class" is located, and adapt the codebase parameter accordingly for that page.


the applets are independent of FP.

hth
(hth means "hope this helps") ;-)

carliniinc
02-23-2005, 01:57 PM
sunzon, (as opposed to hth - which it did) thank you again. I changed all the pages to the "../" parameter to see if they would work before I move everything to the root directory. I will go back to site manager and see exactly where fphoverclass has been installed. I believe it's only in the test directory. I guess the only thing I don't understand is why it didn't work because the fphover.class file is and always was in the test directory which is the only placed I have published to. I also noticed that when I reviewed all the pages on-line some had the codebase parameter and some did not. right now they all have the "../" for codebase in all the applets on all the pages. Would you check and see if they work with XP.

craig

carliniinc
02-23-2005, 02:11 PM
I just checked to make sure and the fphover.class is located in the test directory. It is and that's the only place. I think the whole problem was that the applets were created by FP (inserted actually) it put the codebase paramater on the index page applets and then the applets think fphover.class is one directory level up so they didn't work. Right now I have the codebase paramaters set to "../" which I bet will not work. As soon as I can confirm I will remove all codebse references and see if that fixes the problem

carliniinc
02-23-2005, 03:53 PM
Well I thought I had it licked. I removed all references to codebase in the page applets and republished to the /test directory. I made sure the Fphover. class file was in with all the other page files. I asked a friend with XP to look at the site and Viola! It still dosen't work with xp but works with 98 SE. I'm starting to pull my hair out now :(

sunzon
02-24-2005, 10:33 AM
Craig,

Well after all that hassle about codebase, that was clearly not the issue.
I tried:
http://www.carliniinc.com/test/fphover.class
and was offered to download, so we know "fphover.class" is at the "test" directory level and thus the codebase parameter is superfluous (and I noted you had excluded it).

I downloaded it and put the applet call on a test page.
I got the message:
"applet not initiated"

Conclusion is nothing else is wrong, the applet just won't work under XP.
Gee, aren't I a great help :oops:

Where did you get the "fphover.class"? any documentation there?
I do know some old .class files I have don't work under XP.

May I suggest you search the internet for some other (more recent) applet that gives you the sort of effect you want, preferably known to work on XP :wink:.

I'm here to test for you anything new you come up with :)

carliniinc
02-24-2005, 11:37 AM
SUNZON, I can't thank you enough for taking the time to help me. I learned alot aboud java in the process. The fphoverclass was saved with the web pages when I created the web in frontpage so I assume it is integral to FP 2000. I have been looking around the net and havent found anything else to try so I'll have to rebuild the pages I guess. Do you know a good source for free scripts that will do the similar functions? If I can get them rebuilt I'll make a follow-up post here to let you know that I found a solution. For now I'm off to find a fphover class (I wish they had version numbers or something) if I can.

THANKS AGAIN - I wish upon you great carma for the remainder of you internet days

sunzon
02-24-2005, 11:51 AM
I wish upon you great carma

Thanks, I can use that well :)

I don't know what "fphover.class" actually does.
I interpet it does something to change the look of the link when you pass over it with the mouse.

There are lots of scripts to do this and more in many varied ways, using applets or java scripts.
Try searching for "free java scripts", and browse, I 'm sure you will find plenty.
They are simple to install.
You needn't go through FP to install, just edit your final html pages the way the makers of the java script will have explained.

good luck and carma to you too..............

carliniinc
02-24-2005, 12:38 PM
SUNZON,
Late breaking news. I have been informed by microsoft (can you believe it) that XP and IE6 do not come with Java Virtual Machine (JVM) installed. If JVM is installed the hover buttons will work but as technology marches on the newest XP and browsers won't have JVM so they recommend I use DHTML to achieve the effects I'm after.

So now I'm going to go learn about DHTML.

p.s. your carma is still good!

sunzon
02-24-2005, 03:48 PM
Craig,
Yes I know that, and I have installed JVM.
Even so it is not working.
cheers

carliniinc
02-24-2005, 04:02 PM
Sunzon. I edited the pages and went back to regualr navigation bar format. I republished it if you want to take a look at it. Its pretty basic but for my first commercial venture I think it will work.

8)

sunzon
02-24-2005, 04:31 PM
Yeah I see you have it working.

So you wanted the link to go bold on mouseover?
I didn't know what that applet meant to do, or I could have given you the css style.

Here is another simple way of achieving a similar effect:

<style type="text/css">
a:hover {color: #B30000; text-transform: uppercase; text-decoration: underline; font-weight: bold}
</style>

well done, now you can move on to the next challenge :P

wildjokerdesign
02-24-2005, 04:34 PM
Just a quick comment.... I went in and checked your test page with Netscape version 4.79 ...real old :) I go this as a result.

Oops -something wrong here! Please let me know you received an error by email to ..... Thank you

I removed your email addy for this post. Location shows the address of your .css file so have a feeling it has something to do with that.

Also your Page Protection Script does not work in Netscape 7.2 I can still right click. Of course I can also view your source in IE but not with right click.

Something else I noticed in your code after your <body> tag is this:
[code]
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
[/code/

I think it should be a bit higher up in your code like at the top. :)

Good Job on the site BTW. Nice and clean.

carliniinc
02-24-2005, 06:05 PM
Quick comments are always and greatly appreciated. As a newbie I need all the help I can get. I'll fix up what I can with your comments as an aid. I knew the source code was still viewable in IE but the script was fun to include.
I'll probably have a fit trying to get it al to woek in netscape too. I think I have just the one page with a css and I don't know what will happen if I remove it but I need to get it right even if I have to rebuild the whole page to get rid of the css.

Do you think I need to keep the <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
[/code/. My frontpage 98 Bible says it's optional but I left it in the template that I started with.

Thanks again for the test and eval.

wildjokerdesign
02-24-2005, 06:56 PM
You can keep the <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> but it should be the first line of your html code instead of after the <body> tag.

I am not 100% sure it is your css. I can't think of anything of the top of my head that could be in css that would cause that. The chances that someone is going to be viewing your site with a version of Netscape that is that old is pretty slim and if they are it is most likely going to be someone who would know enough to try a different browser.

sunzon
02-24-2005, 07:33 PM
Take it step by step, and don't ever be afraid to ask for help (here, there, anywhere).
Hey, I do too, all the time, including saying or thinking some dumb things every now and again.
WildJokerDesign and I are competing for a medal in that field :lol:

Your site is commercial, so a few recommendations come to mind that relate to what you are doing.

1> because a javascript/applet is cool, is not a reason to use it. Adding value to your webpage is the only criteria.
2> blocking rightclick has become popular, but anyone interested in the source can get around it. So why bother? There is nothing spectacular about your source code compared to the other 15 billion pages on the web. It degrades your site's PR image (openness).
3> using javascripts/applets should be avoided or kept to a minimum which also improves your ranking on search engines.
4> Use ccss, it's highly recommended. It unclutters webpages and keeps them smaller and faster to load, appeals more to search engines, and helps you organise/overview style better. Having said that, it's sometimes difficult to get ccss to work properly in netscape.
5> finally, keep it simple. Case in point: do you really think the hover improves your webpage appreciation by the visitors?

I hope you take these few comments as well meant to help you achieve success. :)
Your webpage is quite good and appealing, and succesfully designed on many other important basics.
The extras you are working on are not making it any better, in my humble opinion.
I'll be glad to help on whatever you want to resolve, as will many others here on WH forum.

carliniinc
02-24-2005, 08:21 PM
Sunzon, I can't say enough how much I appreciate the help you all have provided. The books help some but they are sometimes more complicated than what I'm trying to do. I could use some good references, net or books or whatever you think would help me, if you have any.
I really like your straight forwad approach to helping me build a better site. I've decided to drop the protection script on the next revision and make some of the changes that WJ suggested. Do you have any advice on where I should concentrate my efforts on - I've seen a lot of rheortic on frames and I'm not all that versed in ccss or css or style sheets. I have a small local market here and if I can provide a good product at a reasonable price I might even be able to turn a profit. My (first) client reviewed the page today after finally getting it to 'play' and he is happy and only requested a few changes. So I'm off and running. THANKS FOR THE ADVICE :D

wildjokerdesign
02-24-2005, 09:25 PM
Skip Frames... no body likes them and they seem to cause more problems then they are worth. :)

CSS is a bit hard to get the hang of I think. It took playing with it and reading tutorials on the net for about a month before I started to see how it was working. It was actually phpBB that forced me to really look at it and give it a try since it uses it to control the look.

I have several different browsers installed on my computer so I can check my codeing to make sure it is compatible. I used to keep more but have gotten to where I check in IE, Netscape and FireFox. If I can find folks with other OS and browsers I have them check sometimes. Just can't afford to have every possible set up out there... all though that would be nice. Still wouldn't mind getting a Mac. :)

sunzon
02-25-2005, 07:48 AM
I agree with WJD, skip frames.
Having an installed IE, Netscape and FireFox is neccessary for testing as WJD pointed out.
Checking screen size presentation is another important test, here is a place to test that:
http://www.markhorrell.com/tools/browser.shtml

CCSS is basically simple, but there is so much one can do with it it gets complicated.
Start by always using a ccss file where you place style attributes, even if it's just the default font for the body or the <td> in a table.
When you look at other websites you like, pick up their ccss file and save it in a workfile of examples. Examples are a great way to learn about what can be done with ccss.
Look at the ccss style sheet for the link I gave you above (pick up from the source):
The url http://www.markhorrell.com/styles/gallery.css
should launch your front page with the css file that you can save. Many sites have simple ccss files that are a good starting point for inspiration.

Well done on your happy client! 8)
Can't suggest any books to you, maybe someone else has ideas on that.
But practical taking it as you go is a pretty good strategy anyway. Look for inspiration on other websites, then find out how to do things.

good luck!