PDA

View Full Version : ssh - mindterm



sunzon
02-15-2005, 08:13 AM
Really aiming at Jalal here.......

In your trips&tricks you mention MindTerm, sounded like exactly what I need (an ssh capability from a website).
But I am in deep water to understand how to install it.

Downloaded all three compressed files from appgate.
Just clicking on mindterm.jar in windows works fine.

But now to the web.
Upload all jar files. Which ones, where are they?
In the page I created, I put (as instructed in the doc):


<APPLET CODE="com.mindbright.application.MindTerm.class"
ARCHIVE="mindterm_ns.jar" WIDTH=0 HEIGHT=0>
<PARAM NAME="cabinets" VALUE="mindterm_ie.cab">
<PARAM NAME="sepframe" value="true">
<PARAM NAME="debug" value="true">
</APPLET>

and read that:



Normally one needs two different versions of the applet on the
server. One jar-file which is used by the Sun java plugins and one
cab-file which is used by the Microsoft java plugin.

That is to use MindTerm with the Microsoft Java runtime you must have
a cab-file with the applet on the server. This cab-file should contain
all the classes provided in mindterm.jar.


So which jar file and where is a cab file? I don't see any "mindterm_ns.jar" or "mindterm_ie.cab".
Just what do I need to upload?

thanks for any help

jalal
02-15-2005, 10:00 AM
Hi Sunzon.

Well, you had me scratching my head here... it was a while back I put that stuff up there.

I have a directory protected by an .htaccess file. In that directory I have an html file containing this bit of code:


<applet archive="mindterm.jar"
code="com.mindbright.application.MindTerm"
width="580" height="400">
<param name="cipher" value="22">
</applet>

and in the directory I also have the mindterm.jar file.
And that, I think, is it.

sunzon
02-15-2005, 12:52 PM
Thanks very much Jalal.
I will try that.

sunzon
02-15-2005, 01:57 PM
Using your styled applet call doesn't help.
Probably I picked up a more recent version and the setup method is maybe different now.
The doc is rather complex.
A quick fix might be I get a copy of your mindterm.jar (assuming its a free version) or I'll just have to spend more time on it.
thanks your help

sunzon
02-15-2005, 04:13 PM
Sorry Jalal, I'm wasting your time :oops:
I was on my other computer without applets enabled :oops:
No problem, works fine.

Just out of interest:
I searched the internet for "mindterm" and came across many sites (often universities using the free version) with a page saying "mindterm should now be loading...", so I started to doubt my browser (I was on IE6). So I went to one of those urls using netscape, and up it came, so I then understood the problem and fixed my IE6 for java applets.

My point of interest is, it looks like you don't even need to install it!
On the road, just google for "mindterm" (39600 serps!) select one, and you've got a ssh shell! Easy as pie!

thanks again for your ever willing help!

jalal
02-16-2005, 01:18 AM
Hehe... glad its working finally!

It's a cool program, and a life-saver when you're stuck in an internet cafe.
You're right, there seem to be a lot of free versions around. Some of them quite an older version, but hey, as long as it works.
The one that I tried did want to install a home directory before it would run, and through up a bunch of warning about installing an applet, which I don't remember getting before. And I don't know how that would be with a public cafe machine.

sunzon
02-16-2005, 07:52 AM
Hello Jalal,

Need to pick your brain a bit more.

I have noticed the free version means you can only log into the server where mindterm is setup, and you then have to relog into the server where you want to go (over 1 hr internet searching to figure that out). It took me another hour to find the syntax to do that (sigh...). But I'm there now.
That covers a lot of possibilities.
But now I tried ftp functions.

For a start, I don't seem to know the syntax to use "cp" to upload/download, assuming that is possible.
I tried eg "cp filename c://pathto/filename" but that doesn't seem to be the way.
A quick reply on that will save me some search time, thanks.

But using cp for upload/download was a fallback, what I really wanted to do was use the sftp or scp transfer.
The ftp window comes up ok, but only with read permission, so not very useful.
I can understand that, because upon initial login there was a message:
"file operations disabled, server identity can't be verified."
Even so I could merrily cp within the server, but clearly ftp is the one involved.

After some research I realize the issue: applet needs to be signed.
For potluck I tried the shared ssl (https://ssl4.westserver.net/mydomain.com/pathtomindterm) but no luck there.

So, my question to you is, how do you use the FTP in mindterm in your case?

Once all this is worked out, we might want to recap all this in your tips&tricks, it really is a most useful product!

jalal
02-16-2005, 02:43 PM
Mindterm is useless for uploading/downloading files. In the same way that SSH is.
When you are in the Mindterm applet window, logged into the shell on your server, you are in effect, working directly on your server and the server has no knowledge at all of the computer at which are, in reality, sitting at. So 'c:\pathto\filename.txt' has no meaning within the shell. There is no way to copy from the 'real' computer to the server, or vice versa.

As you note, once you are logged into your server, then you need to log on to another server (assuming that is where you want to work). The main reason for installing Mindterm is to have a SSH shell wherever I am, most Windows computers don't have SSH, especially when in Internet cafes, but they do have java enable browsers. And I just need to install it on one server and use that as a gateway to the rest of the net.

So, how to transfer files?
Well, there is FTP or scp (or sftp) but if you are in a cafe the choice is fairly limited. I normally try first pulling up a command window and running 'ftp', as Windows does have a mainly braindead ftp client.
If that is not installed, then I have to make use of Internet Explorer and hope I can find somewhere on the local hard drive I can store a file if I'm downloading. Uploading is not such a problem.
I know there is an option on the Mindterm menu, but I've never really tried to get that working, but I guess it may be possible, other alternatives seemed easier.
Another option is to have a PHP page on your server where you can upload files (maybe password protected) and then use Mindterm/ssh to move the files to where you want them on the server.

So, to recap:
An SSH login, whether through a console or through Mindterm, cannot be used to transfer files.
As to the best way to transfer files, a lot depends on the situation and what problem you are trying to overcome. FTP, SFTP and SCP are possibilities, either through Mindterm or separately.

Hope that helps, and if you find a way to use Mindterm to transfer files, let us know.

jalal
02-16-2005, 03:06 PM
I know there is an option on the Mindterm menu, but I've never really tried to get that working, but I guess it may be possible, other alternatives seemed easier.

Yeah, I remember why I never bothered with the tunneling stuff on Mindterm, it will only work with a signed applet and I don't have that (it costs).

Of course, now you mentioned that other sites have the app installed, and we can access them, some of them might be signed. And they are, so go to one of the university sites, open up a session using their applet and, if it is signed, then create a tunnel and use that to transfer files.

Haven't tried it yet, but it should work.

8)

sunzon
02-16-2005, 07:58 PM
Thanks Jalal.

I guessed as much SSH no good for upload/download, frankly I had never even thought of trying it for that before.
Of course I use FTP for upload/download.

The only reason I got into the subject, is because of mindterm.

Mindterm gives SSH via a webpage, and it includes FTP transfer in its capabilities.
Having this capability via any web connection makes life complete :D

Since FTP transfer is in mindterm, I wanted to figure out how to use it.
The fact that FTP requires a signed applet (assuming my analysis is correct) is a nogo unless I can figure out how to use the shared WH ssl.
"Signed applets" is a concept new to me, I will have to research to see if there is a way.
Admittedly FTP can always be done via the browser anyway, so with just webpage SSH capability via mindterm, mobility is complete.

I did research the tunneling function in mindterm.
Tunneling allows you to channel something, like email from one mail server to another mail server.
As I understand it, it can also be used for FTP in the sense that you could set in the local FTP program remote is "localhost" and then use the SSH tunnel to channel the local FTP program thru the SSH shell. That of course defeats the purpose, I am considering the case the local computer does not have an FTP program. But as I said there is an incorporated FTP transfer function in the mindterm applet.

Finally, yes, those unis may make it possible anyway! I'm sure those pages are not intended for general public use -more for their students- so I prefer to have my own setup, even so, it's good to know right? I should try a signed one to see if I can use FTP.

Mindterm is a great discovery for me.
I'll report back if I find an FTP solution in mindterm.

thanks for your help and guidance!!

PS:
Apart from on-the-road without a portable scenarios, let me tell you another reason mindterm appeals to me:
-- Simplicity --
For many inexperienced persons starting off a website, installing ssh and ftp is a fearsome effort, they have to figure out which program to buy, how to configure it etc. Many don't have it, when they need the capability or I explain they need it, it is always right now! For those that know me, I need to invest precious time :lol:

If I can just send them to my mindterm page, they are up and running in minutes, and it's free! From that experience, they can move on later.
I could even list commands and examples on that mindterm page.

Come to think of it, maybe not a bad idea for WH to put up a mindterm page for it's clients (hey, and a signed one too!)

sunzon
02-16-2005, 08:28 PM
Addendum:

Just browsed thru new posts.
Again I see someone without ssh in a new post, and I remember often seeing posts about "you should get putty".
Mindterm is the immediate solution! on WH!
I'll post a suggestion for WH

jalal
02-17-2005, 02:36 AM
Just to clarify...


I did research the tunneling function in mindterm.
Tunneling allows you to channel something, like email from one mail server to another mail server.
As I understand it, it can also be used for FTP in the sense that you could set in the local FTP program remote is "localhost" and then use the SSH tunnel to channel the local FTP program thru the SSH shell. That of course defeats the purpose, I am considering the case the local computer does not have an FTP program. But as I said there is an incorporated FTP transfer function in the mindterm applet.


SSH provides an encrypted connection between two computers. What that connection is used for is of no interest to SSH but for historical reasons, SSH provides a console (or terminal) as part of the program.
So, once the encrypted connection is established, we can create a 'tunnel' through that connection and pass data through the tunnel. In fact, we can tunnel most any protocol through there.

Most java applets run in something called a sandbox on the client computer. This is for security reasons and means that the applet can't access a lot of things on the client computer. To provide tunnelling services to email, ftp and so on, a higher level of security is needed and for this reason we need a signed applet, cryptologically signed by the creator of the applet.

HTH