View Full Version : Email for multiple domains has 1100+ posts NEED WH HELP!!

05-21-2004, 12:04 AM
:( Has anyone noticed "email for multiple domains has over 1100 posts? I think that warrants some support from WH. Obviously this is is a BIG need which is not being addressed. Whadda say Westhost? How about making a great service even better!!

05-21-2004, 08:42 AM
Please look at your column headers. It doesn't have over 1100 *posts*. It has over 1100 *views*. There are 46 posts in the chain, which is still high, but no where near 1100.

It is likely there are that many views because it is a useful thread that gives useful information, and is thus found on searches.

05-21-2004, 09:54 AM
Yup your right its views, not posts. Moving forward, its still a topic of very high interest, but still without a "hackless" solution. I was just researching qmail. Is this the answer? Anyone have any hands on with it?


05-21-2004, 10:24 AM
I think it is solved in the thread, although I haven't read back over the whole thing.
What part of the solution is missing in your view???

WestHost - MMellor
05-21-2004, 10:44 AM
Hello Warren,

I was under the impression also that it was solved within the thread. Do you have any other questions on that topic?

05-21-2004, 12:50 PM
Thanks for asking, yes its solved by the "CK1" method detailed many times in this forum. But hacking system files is not a very elegeant solution and prone to major errors.

WH has done a sterling job with Manager 2.0. I would hope someday soon to see a nice GUI in there for opening mailbox for multiple domains. It is obviously technically possible and I realize this is probably a huge programming challange, but compared to your excellent service and offering to date it would really sweeten the package.

If there is opinion in the marketing dept that this would lower incentive for us to use reseller accounts instead, I would suggest that they take the top down view and consider that any enhancement in any offering strengthens your market position

Thanks for listening

05-21-2004, 01:45 PM
It is not so much a programming challenge as a basic function of a Unix based system. A Unix system consists of users, the users have a mail box (in our case at /var/spool/mail) and that mailbox is in the users name.
From this we can deduce that there can be only one Joe in the system, and only one Jack.
When we introduce additional domains as, for example, web sites, then this is handled by the Apache server. The base Unix system knows nothing about this.
When we add additional domains to the web server, if we want to have additional email accounts then we have to tell sendmail about them, but here we have a problem: what do we do if there is a joe@domain1.com and a joe@domain2.com?
Unix will only allow one mail account by the name of Joe, so the second mail account will have to be some hacked version of the name. Unix assumes that it has only one machine name, the other domain names are handled by the webserver/MTA or whatever.

This is the crux of the matter. Unix based systems were not designed to handle multiple users with the same user name.
So, the only solution is some sort of hack, such as making the user name from the username and the domain name or something like that.
The best solution of course is to do what Westhost themselves do, which is to create mutlitple virtual servers within one server, but then we'd end up with virtual servers within virtual servers, a recipe for disaster I think.

As a customer for some time, and a reseller for a while, I see it as far more trouble than it is worth to stack domains onto VPSs. It is not financially viable in the amount of work that I have to put in to make it work. Additional VPSs are so cheap it is far easier to add an extra VPS. For Westhost to try and "hack the system" for the few folks who want to run multiple domains I think would make a system that would be harder to use for the vast majority who have no use for them.

Thats just my 0.02cents worth to the discussion, I realise that others may have different opinions on the matter.

05-21-2004, 11:23 PM
Your reply is excellent. I too have been with WH for many years hosting 5 domains.

Your comment

"As a customer for some time, and a reseller for a while, I see it as far more trouble than it is worth to stack domains onto VPSs. It is not financially viable in the amount of work that I have to put in to make it work."

made me look at the numbers again (for reseller) which range from $3.60 - $1.60 per domain. You are exactly right its hardly worth 5 minutes never mind the 5 hours in debugging and customer suppport of a hacked system. Its just too bad that a process does not exist which is capable handling the UNIX, for want of a better word "limitation" of multiple users with identical names (a solution that comes to mind is the WIN long file name feature, anyway I digress) If that were possible we could use the "Deluxe" server and say, stack it with 100 domains in there at a cost of 25 cents each! But thats becoming absurd.

In case your wondering whats driving this issue with me, its not the financial structure but functionality. I am targeting a novice user and need two fundmental features: a common user Account manager (with feature not in the WH manager) and web interface for editing html online.

I have purchased two excelent packages for the users to maintain their own pages and account:

WebEditpro http://www.interspire.com/webedit/ for online editing.
(true wysiwig editing that actually works! with all table functions)

Easyhost http://cyberscript.net/ for account mangement.
(wonderrful program, automates online sign up, creates the users folder _with the users choice of website_ is not database driven for pages, actual html documents created in the folder when the user signs up, the users account info is held in MySQL database and [my favorite} will email user lost password and user can update own password as needed!! All one has to do is create the domain pointer to the folder!)

Here' the hook: both programs need to sit above the users folder and path down to it. It is my understanding that this archicture does not exist in the reseller environment. If it does I'll go away a very happy camper.

Again thanks for your detailed reply and I hope you might be able to further shed some light on this issue.


05-22-2004, 01:35 AM
Hmm, EasyHost looked interesting. WebEditPro seems to insist on Windows but also sounds interesting.

"both programs need to sit above the users folder and path down to it. It is my understanding that this archicture does not exist in the reseller environment."

Not in the reseller environment, no, but it does in the VPS. I don't see any problem with installing Easyhost onto a VPS and reselling (or giving away) simple hosting like that. My understanding is that EasyHost is a cgi program that would live in the /var/www/cgi-bin directory and the users pages/site can be created where you want (maybe /var/www/html/users/). And they don't get an email address anyway,
But I haven't tried...


05-22-2004, 04:10 AM
You've got that exactly right! I'm glad you see the value of those packages.

/var/www/html/sites/ is what I am using for usets home folders in my beta testing. I'm using the cgi version of WebEdPro because I understand PERL but it is available in PHP also. Yes the end user must use IE under Windows but I understand that these types of HTML editors will also work under OSX.

Heres an interesting twist I was also thinking about. So if we've hit a brickwall with multiple domains mailboxes under one VPS, just split SMTP before it even gets to the host. If one could get access to the zone records for the domain, it would be a simple matter to path mail to vendor who resell email services such as everyone.net. I don't have the exact syntax for the record but they are something like this

domain.com IN MX 10 mail.domain.com
domain.com IN MX 20 mail2.domain.com ;backup mail server

IN A ; HTTP requests

www IN A ; WWW requests

so then send mail someplace else

domain.com IN MX 10 mail.everyone.net
domain.com IN MX 20 mail2.everyone.net ;backup mail

IN A ; HTTP requests

www IN A ; WWW requests

The hook here is that in a single VPS the WH manager can only edit the zone records for the primary domain and add-in domain are not editable.

So the next step is to change the DNS record of the domain off NS1.WEST-DATACENTER.NET and use a service like zoneedit.com where you can edit the domain zone record to you liking.

So thats also under consideration.