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web1x
09-20-2003, 03:37 PM
What's the difference between Name Based VPS and IP Based VPS? Why would IP Based VPS cost more? These are in the add-on options for the reseller accounts.

Thanks!
Robert

FZ
09-20-2003, 04:28 PM
I'm only guessing here... But with a name based VPS, you'd only have one dedicated IP address. All of your "sub-sites" would not have their own IPs - they would only be accessible using their respective (sub)domain names. With an IP based VPS, you'd have a dedicated IP per VPS meaning it would be accessible using both it's IP address and it's assigned (sub)domain. The IP address would reverse DNS to the respective (sub)domain name in this case. In the former case, it would probably reverse DNS to your main domain. Of course there are other benefits to having a dedicated IP address, but for the average joe it should not matter.

An example of this would be a subdomain you add using the new 2.0 Site Manager. If you add the subdomain test.mydomain.com, you will see that it's IP address is the same as mydomain.com's. That's name-based and not IP-based. Going to the IP address will take you to mydomain.com and not to test.mydomain.com.

ScoRpiO
10-02-2003, 07:41 AM
hey! you are a little bit wrong design. it is like this. a vds meand a virtual dedicated server. that means that on the same physical machine there are many virtual servers. a dedicated ip address means that every vds has it's own ip address. shared ip address means that the physical machine (computer, server, call it as u like) has only one ip address. how do u make the difference between domains then... u will ask... it's simple. apache web server can be configured to make the difference. it is called virtual hosts. that means all the domains on the same physical machine will resolve to the same ip address, but apache will have a different configuration for each domain (subdomain), based on the name provided in the url. that means, when u have shared ip address, if u type in the browser the ip address, apache webserver won't know which site to serve, because all the sites on that particular physical machine have the same ip address. when u have a dedicated ip address per vds, you will point all your domains (subdomains) to the same ip address... what design64 sais in the last paragraph is correct, but it doesn't make the difference between shared and dedicated ip address as it is implemented at westhost. let's see what happens when u have a dedicated ip per vds, and u host one domain with several subdomains. first of all let's clear out how we configure apache. it has several sections among which there are the main section, which configures the main webserver and the virtual host section. when u have a single domain with several subdomains, when u type the domain name, if it is not defined as a virtual host, it will be handled by the main section of the configuration file. the subdomains should be defined as virtual hosts and they will be handled by their respective defined configurations. the domain and the subdomains have the same ip address. there is no reason to use a separate ip addresses for subdomains, because they are hosted in the same environment. several ip addresses would mean several aliases for the same environment, which is ilogic. different ip addresses are used when a certain subdomain will be hosted on a different server, on a different network, anyway, outside the domain's environment. if u have multiple domains with multiple subdomains, u should define each of it as a virtual host. there is still one ip address for all of them. because the dedicated ip address is per vds, not per domain. why do u need dedicated ip address? for example anonymous ftp works only with a dedicated ip address... some fancy applications need to reverse dns which is not possible with a shared ip address. but normally, u don't need dedicated ip address for a normal website.

REC-WH
10-02-2003, 07:59 AM
Question for all!

Will Search Engines index each Multiple Domains if the have the same IP address? The Domain Names are just variations with hyphens or plural.

Charlie

ccwebb
10-02-2003, 08:47 AM
ScoRpiO:

For the technically challenged like me:

Which scenario described above do I have for my basic 2.0 account?

Charlie

wildjokerdesign
10-02-2003, 09:00 AM
Charlie,
If you have the starter package you would not have a dedicated IP for your account. That would be for a new account. I belive that some of the older accounts did have a dedicated IP. Atleast that is how I understand it and why starter accounts do not have IMP availble to them because it requires a static dedicated IP.

web1x
10-02-2003, 09:48 AM
My starter account had its own IP when it was on 1.0, and now that it's on 2.0, it still has its own IP. The IP number is different now, and it does pull up my site when I type it in my browser.

Design64's answer makes the most sense, but I guess I'll have to ask WH to be sure. Just don't want to be bombarding them with stupid questions at a time like this ....

Robert

REC-WH
10-02-2003, 09:53 AM
Charlie,
If you have the starter package you would not have a dedicated IP for your account. That would be for a new account. I belive that some of the older accounts did have a dedicated IP. Atleast that is how I understand it and why starter accounts do not have IMP availble to them because it requires a static dedicated IP.

Thanks for the reply. No I don't have the starter package. I upgraded so I could add additional domain names to my account. But when I did a trace or ping on all domain names under one account the end results is the main hosting account's domain name.

So I assume a search engine would also come up with the same results and not index all domain names because they have the same IP address. I do understand the previous discussions about Apache and Virtual Host because I have set it up under Windows. I hope you can understand what I am trying to say!

My site finally started working right last night. All domain names are working. The pages and images are loading. There was a question about posting my site URL on the forum. The reason I don't is that I use several open source software programs. One I use had a security problem so some someone was unhappy and started down the sites listed on the forum and deleted their accounting/users files!


Thanks for all the replies & help!

Charlie

FZ
10-02-2003, 11:39 AM
Thanks Scorpio for that detailed explanation. Don't mean to sound snobbish, but I think the gist of what I said is exactly what you explained in such technical detail and with such precision. I did not think it was appropriate to mention Apache virtual hosts and the like in reply to web1x's original post. Nevertheless, thank you for the clarification(s). I just hope web1x isn't too confused right now :)

REC-WH: I was just looking for a post that I recall was about the same topic, and realized it was originally by you! Anyway, did you read dahj's reply? http://forums.westhost.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=1677#1677 He seems to be confident with his answer. I'll have a look and see if I can find you more (definitive) info on that.

ccweb: Like Shawn said, if you have the starter package then you do not have a dedicated IP and your account is "totally" name-based (going to the IP shouldn't show anything at all). If you have a more expensive package, then you have a dedicated IP address that should reverse DNS to your domain name. But, like I said in my original post, subdomains off this account of yours are name-based (going to the IP address would send you to your main page, since as Scorpio pointed out, Apache would not know which subdomain to "serve" your browser).

ScoRpiO
10-02-2003, 01:33 PM
design64: u said that u r guessing, so i wanted to clarify things. i went deep into details because there are users not too qualified and a short answer that i would understand and also u could understand, many other guys won't. and besides this, the post will remain as a reference, because this forum is some kind of tech support that we give to each other.

u gave us a link for the search engine question. that is a correct and logical explanation. but in that case, there were several domains pointing to the same site. the author of the answer specifically told it was the case of duplicate files. rec-vh was talking about domains pointing to the same ip. he didn't specify anything about the same or different sites (virtual hosts). frankly, i don't have a clue about what happens when ur domains point to different virtual hosts (different sites). indeed search engines check for duplicate files, but i don't know for a fact if they crawl the web by domain name or by ip addresses.

a starter plan can have dedicated ip adddress for 1 $/month. anyway westhost's hosting plans shouldn't be discussed untill everything settles down. what i'm trying to say is that charlie may have a dedicated ip even if he has a starter account. whether it's a mess or he is paying extra for the dedicated ip i dunno, but he can have a dedicated ip with a starter account.

and i would like to answer web1x initial question. why does a dedicated ip cost extra... the answer is simple. ip's cost money. the authorities of internet TLD's, the guys that sell domain names, also sell ip ranges to companies. these ip's are rather expensive and rather difficult to get (u have to justify their use), because there is a limited amount of ip's while the internet grows exponentially). a couple of years ago, the smallest ip range to be sold was a class C network, that would be 256 ip's. and they noticed that less than a half of the sold ip's are actually routed in the internet. therefore, they decided to sell u as many ip's that u actually need. and let's get back to the original question. using one ip for a server (let's say, for example 10 vds's) is 10 times cheaper than using an ip address for each vds. that's why a dedicated ip costs extra.

web1x
10-02-2003, 01:33 PM
ccweb: Like Shawn said, if you have the starter package then you do not have a dedicated IP and your account is "totally" name-based (going to the IP shouldn't show anything at all).

I have the starter package and I do have a dedicated IP. If I type the IP in my browser, I get my site. Same with a couple of other sites (also on starter package) that I manage. I had a dedicated IP both before and after the 2.0 upgrade. Although, the IP did change after the upgrade.

Robert

FZ
10-02-2003, 02:22 PM
Scorpio,

Thanks again. You're right - for those that want a detailed explanation they can refer to your post. For others that just want a very short and simple answer that is (hopefully) mostly correct they can read mine ;) I'm glad you made that post... The whole point of the forums is to contribute knowledge and help each other (learn). Keep it up.

About REC-WH's question, I misread it. Sorry.

---

Robert,

Hmm, okay maybe for WestHost their definition of a "dedicated IP" is "slightly different" - or that I am getting confused with the Name- vs. IP-based thing and dedicated IPs. I understand a dedicated IP (as [apparently] included with all packages besides starter) to be an IP address that is fixed (i.e. WestHost cannot change it daily or move you around servers, or do something that would change your IP address, etc. - besides a migration ;)) and that is used exclusively for my web site alone. I think the test would be to see if your IP address reverse DNS' to your domain or not (1.0 IPs did not, and I don't think non-dedicated 2.0 IPs do either). Check out www.samspade.org to see if it does... Let us know what you get.

web1x
10-02-2003, 03:04 PM
Hmm, okay maybe for WestHost their definition of a "dedicated IP" is "slightly different" - or that I am getting confused with the Name- vs. IP-based thing and dedicated IPs.Yeah, me too! :?

I checked three 1.0 sites and two 2.0 sites. Only the 2.0 sites reverse DNS, but all of them do bring up the correct site when typed in a browser. I have always had the same IP's on all the sites -- they've never been changed, except when migrating to 2.0, and one site was once moved to a different server for some reason and its IP changed then.

Robert

REC-WH
10-02-2003, 05:08 PM
I checked three 1.0 sites and two 2.0 sites. Only the 2.0 sites reverse DNS, but all of them do bring up the correct site when typed in a browser. I have always had the same IP's on all the sites -- they've never been changed, except when migrating to 2.0, and one site was once moved to a different server for some reason and its IP changed then.
Robert

I don't know what I about talking about! But, I think your Domain Name was assigned to the new server. Either you or someone changed the DNS assigning it to them. They therefore assigned you an IP address from their assigned range of IP addresses! Now all the people on the internet know where to find you.

Domain Names are for humans, Numerical addresses are for computers.

CM

MacToph
10-03-2003, 11:58 AM
What's the difference between Name Based VPS and IP Based VPS? Why would IP Based VPS cost more? These are in the add-on options for the reseller accounts.

I asked this same questions awhile ago and Jennifer responded with some of the advantages of having a dedicated IP:

http://forums.westhost.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=235