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SJP
09-07-2003, 03:34 PM
I *****ed and moaned about Konqueror and Opera not allowing me to block an IFRAME (z-index:) and I was tempted to say screw it the user can see enough to figure it out, but this bothered me cause I don't like kludges. My IE5.5+ and NN6+ pages were just fine. So I finally bit the bullet and rewrote the interface so now it pushes the IFRAME out of the way. Plus I know for sure the web-site is compatible with IE6, NN7.1, Opera 7, and Kongueror 3 and I suspect a few others like IE5. I'm doing minimal sniffing. All object detection. And I conslidated all the different pages for the above browsers into one. Please take a look and tell me what you think. If the page looks crummy or is unuable please tell me the browser you're using so I can investigate further. Thanks!

http://www.SanJuanPersonals.com/

wildjokerdesign
09-07-2003, 04:34 PM
The only comment I have is that I had to scroll over to the right to see the content of the page.

I was viewing it on IE 6.0 os Windows 98 and have my screen res set at 1024x768

SJP
09-07-2003, 07:13 PM
Yes, I do fill up a 17" screen. I could have put the avertisements on either side and made the personal page more narrow and prevented you from needing to scroll, but the personal pages have their own navigational controls so unless you're surfing the categories (and most aren't) you would only have to do this once. Please by all means click on the menu items in the upper lefthand corner and see if the screen is being formatted correctly. Also please tell me the browser being used. I need this for my own documentation purposes. Thanks!

SJP

wildjokerdesign
09-07-2003, 07:26 PM
I was using Internet Explorer version 6.0.

I will go back when things calm down and have anouther look.

dahj
09-12-2003, 03:00 PM
You designed the page to fill up a 17" screen. This I would suggest agianst doing, and rather than designing for a certain screen resolution, I would suggest that you design you site in relation to the screen <width=100%> or set a pixel dimesion less than 1000 seeing as a majority of your visitors will have their resolution set on 1024x768. Designing a site that can only be viewed when the screen is maximized on a 17" monitor is ridiculous. If your visitor has to scroll to view anything, they aren't going to stay long, that much I can tell you.

Take a look @ : www.seriousoutdoorgear.com

I designed this site, and it uses the 100% principle. So not matter the browsers size, the site in its entirety is always going to appear in the browser window. But just try to design your site to adjust the the browser size and not just fit on a 17" screen.

SJP
12-27-2003, 11:58 PM
I've redesigned the site yet again. Partly due to a break through and an unfortunate misgiving with the IFRAME element which I was in love with. I was heart broken. But, now the kick is back in my step! I would really appreciate some feedback. The site has undergone quite a transformation since the last time.

http://www.sanjuanpersonals.com/

SJP

wildjokerdesign
12-28-2003, 08:37 AM
Your right you have changed thing quite a bit. Only a couple things I saw. One I would move the banner add to the very top of the page and have the menu below it. I think that would just look cleaner.

I didn't need to but I did try the broken link to see what it would do. When I did I then kept trying to click the ok button to get it back which did not work. I finnally clicked the Top link and got it back and realized what was going on. I think this could be a bit more intuitive for the user. Also it switched the way the menu worked but then I was stuck with the new method until I used my back button to return and switch it back.

One more thing the Ferry button takes you out of our site instead of opening a new window. Did you mean it that way?

SJP
12-28-2003, 01:07 PM
Thanks for your feedback. My only reservation about moving the banner to the top and putting the links underneath is that more room would be required beneath them for display purposes. You can't tell (or the casual user wouldn't notice), but the document is split into two frames. The top one where the banner and menu reside occupy about a third. That leaves two thirds for everything else which in my case are personal ads. One of the drawbacks with frames is that they cannot extend past the end of the page. And another is that little boxes brought into existence using css cannot overlap other frames. When I was using IFRAME my solution was to move the IFRAME out of the way using css, but you can't do that with ordinary frames since they are stationary. I did consider putting the ads in a seperate window and alleviating the problem of being constrained, but then get this - Opera 7 doesn't honor the TARGET attribute in A elements! I agree the switching back and forth between the broken mode is a bit funky, but that is not something I expect the user will do more than once. When the surfer comes to the site they just want it to work. But, I'll work on making it more intuitive just in case.

SJP

SJP
01-05-2004, 02:09 PM
It turned out following WildJokerDesign lead concerning moving the links underneath the banner was pretty simple afterall. The broken link confusion? Well now users are only told how to turn it on and how to proceed. You can still turn it off like before I just don't say anything. I can't imagine users switching back and forth. I mean what would be the point? Either it works or it doesn't. And oh yeah wildjokerdesign thanks for the heads up on the ferry link closing the page.

SJP

inzones
01-08-2004, 04:15 PM
When I first looked at the site, I thought it was for San Jan Puerto Rico ... Maybe you should include a map of the San Juan islands or something.
I didn't try to post an ad since I'm happily married and live in Massachusetts so I couldn't comment on how well it works. You could also use some help with the design.

wildjokerdesign
01-08-2004, 09:02 PM
I just did another quick check of your site the bottom of the Catagories menu is not showing. Probably my fault for suggeting the change in the location of the banner.

I am curious why you are useing frames on not simply placeing the header on each page. The spaceing on the menues may not be as touchey that way.

I had wondered about the design of the site as inzones mentioned but I also felt that was a choice you had made in the way you wanted it to look. I do thing maybe it could be a bit more "slick" but that is just my taste. Do note that user izones has a site with Templates and graphics so I imagin it would be their taste to have a few more graphics and such. I think I one point I rember in the discussion on one of the post that you where concerned more with speed, code and that the site would be readable by all browsers. Looks like you have achieved that.

SJP
01-08-2004, 09:52 PM
Well you got me there. The site is plain. I'll add a picture or two of this area down the road and maybe even make a scenic shot into a background and use that instead of #FFFEF7 (faint yellow). Right now my priority is functionality and I bet that's all users really care about. Looks are superficial. I presume by design you're referring to the web-page, because if I may honk my own horn the software that runs the web-site (it's completely automated - Perl 5) is superb! Thanks for looking at the site and sharing your opinion.

SJP

SJP
01-09-2004, 03:18 AM
Wildjokerdesign what browser are you using? Can you see the copyright notice? The category item should not extend beyond it. I had to adjust the frame size, because I had the same problem with Opera and Mozilla. I use frames because I use forms and sometimes what you get back from submitting one is a single line and having the entire window overwritten just to display it (or a new one opened as large as the screen) is undesireable. It's too bad the TARGET attribute of the FORM element doesn't allow you to specify the dimensions of a window to be created. I imagined izones had bias and it's not completely accurate of me to say looks don't matter. I'll get around to it. I have that narcissistic fibre like everybody else :-) Yes, I certainly have been trying to stick to my one script philosophy.

SJP

SJP
01-09-2004, 03:39 AM
inzones, can you not see the title? It plainly states the San Juan islands, Washington, USA. I believe AOL obscures the title or it did. Or maybe people just don't see it. You know. It's so obvious it's not. Like hide the thimble? It doesn't really matter, because there's no confusion in the Pacific North West and that's the target audience.

SJP

Blackfyr
01-09-2004, 09:29 AM
First, your entry page is still bleeding off to the right when your visitor doesn't have his browser window set to your desired width. Using the 100% specification really is better than giving a specific width.

Second, I'm running Safari (the new default browser on the Mac) and you seem to be having some text size issues with that browser. The text in the top frame gets cut off by the frame. You can see what I mean here: http://www.TwoBurrens.com/pictures/SJPDetail.jpg

wildjokerdesign
01-09-2004, 12:13 PM
Seems something may be amiss. I went back to check what I was seeing and in your top frame the last line that is visible upon entry is this

Correspond anonymously and as carefree as you are able to now through e-mail for FREE!

When I highlighted it to copy it here the top frame gave me a slight shift and I realized there was lots more text below that I was not seeing. I could get to it by highlighting down the page. All this text is there but not visible.



A=Asian B=Black C=Christian D=Divorced D=Drinker
F=Female G=Gay H=Heavy H=Hispanic/Latino J=Jewish
L=Light M=Male N=Native N=Non P=Professional
S=Single S=Smoker W=White W=Widow BBW=Big Beautiful Woman
Men Seeking Men
Men Seeking Women
Women Seeking Women
Women Seeking Men
Alternative Lifestyles

Lets Connect
E-MAIL:
Modify your ad.

NEW ID:
E-MAIL:
ID's are case sensitive and must be 8 - 24 long.
Only letters, numbers, and underscores allowed.

E-MAIL:
Only remove AD

Abbreviations - Common Shortcuts
Change AD - Fix spelling, update, etc.
Rename ID - Make it easier to remember
Remove ID - Completely or partially
Copyright SanJuanPersonals.com 2004
Abbreviations - Common Shortcuts
Change AD - Fix spelling, update, etc.
Rename ID - Make it easier to remember
Remove ID - Completely or partially
If the links on the category pages don't work:
Create AD - Create a ad
Answer AD - Respond to ad
Entire AD - Read the full ad

TOP

A=Asian B=Black C=Christian D=Divorced D=Drinker
F=Female G=Gay H=Heavy H=Hispanic/Latino J=Jewish
L=Light M=Male N=Native N=Non P=Professional
S=Single S=Smoker W=White W=Widow BBW=Big Beautiful Woman

TOP

E-MAIL:
Modify your ad.
TOP
NEW ID:
E-MAIL:
ID's are case sensitive and must be 8 - 24 long.
Only letters, numbers, and underscores allowed.
TOP
E-MAIL:
Only remove AD
TOP
Men Seeking Men

Men Seeking Women

Women Seeking Women

Women Seeking Men

Alternative Lifestyles

Lets Connect

TOP
This menu item changes how the Utilities and Categories menu items enable you to make selections. Click OK to turn this feature on. Click TOP to return to the top of the page and try again.

TOP

What is the ID?
TOP


I got rid of some of the white space and ofcourse the textareas and boxes are not in this post.

Im viewing with IE 5.0 and Windows ME on this computer. Have not checked it on my other computers or browsers. The very last entry for Catagories gets shaved off. The font on your pages are pretty large don't know if that is what you see or not but thought I would mention it. I can't change the size of the fonts with my browser settings but that would be because my settings are to allow the page css to overide my settings.

Hope that helps let me know if there is anything else you want me to check.

SJP
01-09-2004, 02:02 PM
Blackfyr thanks for posting that jpeg. Yeah, the font sizes are different. I'm using CSS to set them. I don't know what else I can do to avoid this problem other than using an image for the top part and using a client side image map to assign the hotspots (menu items). That would solve the text size problem either because 12pt looks like 15pt on some monitors that have a different resolution (?) or the user adjusted the text sizes themselves. What I've done in the meantime is change where the menu thinks the bottom is. Since everyone can see the phrase, "Correspond anonmously and as..." (or part of it) now the menu items will render above it. It's more important that everyone can use the site (even if it doesn't display as intended) than be able to read that line or the copyright notice beneath it. They're just space fillers anyways. So I'd appreciate if you could take another look. Wildjokerdesign I've already tried putting much of the text you're not supposed to see in a seperate file and hoping that by setting the frame size to * only as much room as needed would be consumed (which is what I thought '*' implied). But the screen is just cut in half regardless. I guess my only suggestion now is if it's still broke activate the broken link :-(

SJP

SJP
01-09-2004, 03:11 PM
I notice on this web-site (forum) everything is enclosed in a table that is centered. What is not clear is how they prevent the table from being the same width as the screen since there is nothing on either side and there are no explicit widths. They do use the
element however in the messages like this one and so I'm wondering how they determine where to put them in the text so that paragraphs and ultimately the table itself does not exceed a certain width.

SJP

SJP
01-09-2004, 03:15 PM
Sorry I forgot this forum eats HTML.

"They do use the <BR> element however.........."

SJP
01-09-2004, 03:56 PM
Ok, forget what I said about %lt;BR> elements. The phpBB people are setting the table that encloses all to 760 pixels. I just trim my page and it should fit. Setting the width to 100% may sound good, but nobody is really doing it if they're constraining the width of the outermost container using an absolute value.

SJP

SJP
01-09-2004, 08:14 PM
Ok I admit I don't know how phpBB keeps everything in a nicely formated window in the center of the screen. As soon as I wrote that last message and submitted it - whamo! The forum went 100%. Anyhow I did away with the width contraints. Now the web-page occupies 100%. The centering of things is off (not that is was fabulous before :-(). I am curious though if those issues with IE5 (wildjokerdesign?) and Safari (Blackfyr?) have been resolved. thanks.

SJP

wildjokerdesign
01-09-2004, 09:14 PM
Catagories are showing fine for me now. If you wanted to reproduce what the WestHost forum looks like you could create a table that had its width set to say 75% and its alignment to center. I think you are right that WestHost wraps the whole page in a table that has a fixed width of 760. I have used the same technique since 760 as a rule well show ok in most browsers and keep folks from haveing to scroll right and left. If you really did into the html of the phpBB you well see that they use alot of nested tables. I do the same to control the look of things but you really have to watch and do testing on as many browsers and screen resolutions.

SJP
02-22-2004, 04:58 AM
I dumped frames, Who cares if the entire screen is used to display a single line error message generated by a <FORM> submission. I use javascript to close the window after a few seconds anyways. I get a little nerotic sometimes and go off the deep end. I added a backdrop to the index page and changed the color. I moved the menu items back to the top as WJD suggested, but otherwise that's about it. Yes, its gottem to this - esthetics. Maybe I've got my head screwed on backwards, but I thought this was the least important.

SJP