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View Full Version : Moving to VPSnet - still concerned



WVOz1970
08-20-2009, 09:14 AM
I'm planning to try VPS.net as I have no other viable alternative at this point for my customers. I need some direction as to how to set up over there.

I'm on reseller #2 plan right now. It gives me 800g b/w and 50g disk space for $38.95 a month. In order to get that capacity at VPS, I'd be paying $80/month.

So I theoretically think I only need two nodes, which will keep me at the same price range (before discount)... but I don't know that the 20g of disk space and 500g of bandwidth will cut it. I have one customer who is running an image repository for all of their product images. Will I be able to grow my disk space without having to buy more nodes? I'm trying to figure out what my cost is going to be, but I don't know if pricing for additional disk space has been published. I've voiced it multiple times that I'm frustrated because the price is not comparable at this point... but that's the breaks when software reaches end of life, I guess.

So do we know if extra capacity is available and costs? Or when it will be?

WestHost - CReeves
08-20-2009, 12:24 PM
WVOz1970,


VPS.NET is currently not set up for a ďtypicalĒ Reseller format. As you mentioned you can purchase and add node resources as necessary and the more you purchase the better the value up to 50% off.

If you are interested in Reselling on VPS.NET I would strongly encourage you to read their recent blog post concerning this option. http://vps.net/blog/reselling-the-vps-cloud/

Currently in order to get more disk space it requires that you purchase an additional node. I agree with you based on your description and that you intend on reselling the space 2 nodes is not a viable solution for you. There has been discussion surrounding this topic of the added resources without purchasing nodes but we do not have a definitive answer at this time. I would encourage you to watch VPS.NET home page and blog for these possible future changes.

john_collins
10-05-2009, 02:45 PM
I subscribe to the old saying that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

WH 3 is working very well for me and has for a while. I remember some issues when transitioning from 2 to 3 and fear that the change to 4 will be far worse. It ain't broke, leave it alone!

On occasion, I do enter the server file system and have modified the php.ini file and dabbled with the Spam Assassin rules (with help from these forums) and probably a few other things. I've hacked my Dadamail files--a necessary app for my business. My calendar system (purchased) uses Zend encrypted files. I have a couple of cronjobs set up using Apple's Terminal. But I"m not a pro. I can't do more than simple items like this. Plus I've received excellent help when needed by WH's excellent tech support staff.

I visited VPS.net and will admit to being totally clueless. I don't understand purchasing nodes or what a node really is. I couldn't see where there were applications that could be included as I can from the WH 3 control panel. I couldn't even tell what was included with the package, if anything. Maybe I have to install them all. From what I could see, the 'recommended package' costs $30/mo more than I'm paying now, and I have no idea whether that package would be adequate.

I have a web business to run. I'm not a server administrator. I want to work on my business, not fiddle with installing server apps and making them work. I can't afford the down time while they are not working right. It's way over my head anyway. I'm 68, this stuff does not come easy any more.

I'm not at all happy about this change. It ain't broke.

John

WestHost - CReeves
10-05-2009, 03:16 PM
Dear John,

We understand and share in some of your same concerns. Unfortunately, the VPS-like technology currently used by WestHost is at end of life. It was not a decision that we made by choice but rather by circumstance. As mentioned in previous threads the change to 4.0 will actually serve to be a nice upgrade for the vast majority of our clients. For those that need a VPS technology this change can be problematic. That is why we have partnered with our sister company VPS.NET and are recommending to check them out if you need the VPS technology.

While it is true that VPS.NET is an unmanaged solution don't let that fool you into thinking its too complicated. It's not. VPS.NET has worked hard to make it as easy as it possibly can be for an unmanaged solution. This idea of nodes is fantastic because your getting exactly what you pay for. A node is simply a set number of resources (disk space, bandwidth, cpu, ram, etc..). You can sign up for as many nodes as you require and have the flexibility to add or subtract as your business dictates. It does require a bit more work since it is an unmanaged solution however VPS.NET does offer a managed solution for an additional fee (http://vps.net/blog/2009/09/02/introducing-pro-active-managed-support-plan/). Anyway, you can assign these nodes (resources) to as many VPS's as you like so there is tremendous flexibility.

If you have additional questions or concerns please feel free to contact us directly and we can address those. Thank you for sharing your input.

beakt
10-11-2009, 03:34 AM
John,

I have had the exact same experience with West Host: perfect level of service I need, very happy with it, and unhappy with the options we are now facing. See my post in this same group titled "Clarification on whatís happening."

Mr. Reeves,

Thank you for your replies, but they amount only to "try it, youíll like it," although both John and I have visited VPS.NET already and found it baffling, and it is very clear that it is more expensive. And if we choose the "managed" option you describe to actually make it like what we have now, it is another $1200 per year PER VPS!

I think I have the clarification I was seeking. Mr. Reeves, we understand perfectly well that Sphera, your hypervisor software, is no longer supported, but I canít imagine there are no other ways you can continue to provide the same user experience customers like me and John are used to. Your new owner simply doesnít want to.

For every guy like me and John who post on here with our concerns, I wonder how many will just quietly find another provider. I probably will when the time comes. Iím very sad about it, because I was so happy with West Host up until now.

But, I hold out hope you heed all the posts on here and decide to figure out a way not to disrupt our service so drastically. Thanks.

Jeffrey Fox

Ditlev
10-12-2009, 05:12 AM
I subscribe to the old saying that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."
(...)
I'm not at all happy about this change. It ain't broke.

John

So do I - I really do not like spending money (in this case quite a lot) on upgrading systems if they were not broken...Thing is, in this case, they are broken...we - at WestHost - have just managed to keep together the pieces by extensive custom programming and many many manhours.

The core problem is that the current platform, based on Sphera from Parallels, has been put to "end-of-life" by their developers. Which basically means that Parallels has decided to stop adding new features and upgrades to it. Now, we could live with that, no new features, but the main problem is that they also stop adding security patches, and fixing vulnerabilities. I will not allow us to continue offering a controlpanel knowing that it is potentially exposing our clients to serious security issues - It is as simple as that.

I see no other options than to change to another control panel, and I feel that cPanel that Westhost 4.0 is based on is the best option out there.

Best,

Ditlev

wildjokerdesign
10-12-2009, 05:36 AM
Folks I am working with WH 4.0 right now in beta and it well most likely fit the needs of the majority of current WH clients. There is a bit of a learning curve dealing with the new interface but that is because it does a lot more then the old system. Granted we no longer have the root like access but many things that we used to have to manually deal with is now available via cPanel.

vps.net can be daunting. I've decided it is not for me but if you really need the root access give it a try. They have a great forum over there and the tech team is always trying to add things that make it easier. While it may be true that you have to keep things updated, there are tools that help you do this. There are more and more images that are being added that help in this area. They even have some turn key image that self update with security changes.

john_collins
10-18-2009, 12:52 PM
I'm trying to keep an open mind. I've looked around your site and beyond the FAQ thread in this forum, I cannot find really good information on what V4 means to my business. If there is a detailed information page, I did not find it. I'd like to know more without committing myself to being a beta tester.

Or can I sign up for to test a domain that I've just started developing that does not even has its own account yet?

I'd like to see screen shots and a list of the current apps that are still supported

Does it support Dadamail? Without it, I'm out of business

I'm on a semidedicated server right now. Will there be an equivalent?

Will I have control over the version of apps installed (example, PHP 5.30 breaks my calendar, which also puts me out of business--I need 5.29)

Can I modify the php.ini file?

I've had corruption in the past that required a VPS restart. Is there a way to do that?

I'm sure I'll think of more.

wildjokerdesign
10-18-2009, 04:02 PM
The new WH 4.0 is running php 5.2.10. That may change once they get to the release since I am finding some issues with that version of PHP and some programs. I have not heard back yet on the issue but I am sure they will look into it. There is a patch for this issue so they may simply apply it.

Beta testing has already started and only has about a week left so I doubt you can get in as a tester at this point.

Any script that you are running that is PHP or CGI/Perl is most likely going to still work. Even if they do not offer it via the built in installer these types of programs can almost always be installed manually. Dadamail is one of the programs that is offered via the installer.

Because of the nature of the new system you don't really need the ability to restart the account. We do not have the same access level to the things that we did before so the likelihood that you'll do something that would need this is very slim.

You can not modify php.ini but you do have the ability to control some settings via .htaccess and in a php script itself. You can check php.net for the settings/variables that you can do this with.

Here is the link to the comparison page between WH 3.0 and WH 4.0 apps: http://www.westhost.com/30to40comparison.html You'll notice we are gaining more then we are loosing when it comes to that part. :) There are no screen shots yet of things. They are useing cPanel and WHM so you can check their site to get and idea of what you are in for. http://www.cpanel.net/ The images you see there are pretty close although they have tried to streamline somethings to make it easier.

LWC
10-19-2009, 03:44 AM
What about "mbstring.internal_encoding"? I don't think you can change it outside of php.ini and it's a really important line.

Unless you finally change it to UTF-8 (http://forums.westhost.com/showthread.php?p=30121), you would force everyone to use just one certain language.

wildjokerdesign
10-19-2009, 05:21 AM
It is a PHP_INI_ALL directive which means it can be set anywhere including in your scripts if you want. Refrence: http://php.net/manual/en/mbstring.configuration.php

LWC
10-20-2009, 02:26 AM
That's better then. Alas, can't you just use the line instead of us having to include it in endless scripts some of which parts of CMS, etc.?

wildjokerdesign
10-20-2009, 04:59 AM
You can put it in a .htaccess file in your public root directory. :)
http://php.net/manual/en/configuration.changes.php

ricrat
10-21-2009, 02:05 PM
You can put it in a .htaccess file in your public root directory. :)
http://php.net/manual/en/configuration.changes.php

WH40 does not allow changing php_values in .htaccess
You can place a php.ini in each directory where you want to override values

VERIFIED through BETA testing
Follow url and check it out.
http://hai.all-vball.net.wh4beta.com/$phpinfo.php
root - contains php.ini
register_globals = Off
include_path = ".:/php1/include"
pvt - contains phi.ini
register_globals = Off
include_path = ".:/php2/include"
pbl - NO php.ini

Click on the various links to see the changes
Hope this helps:)

wildjokerdesign
10-21-2009, 05:06 PM
Opps, I knew I was going to get caught on that. :) I had not tested it yet. It is good to know that they are using the php.ini method in each directory though.

LWC
10-23-2009, 05:29 PM
Granted, there are less folders than there are scripts. But your solution still requires manually planting custom php.ini files in (when using CMS) hundreds of folders per site. All for 1 line that should work for everybody by default.

wildjokerdesign
10-24-2009, 06:39 AM
While most CMS programs have a ton of directories you should only have to place the php.ini file in the base directory and perhaps in the admin directory. Remember that the "program" is accessed via a single index.php file in most cases so as long as the php.ini file is in that same directory you should be good to go.

wildjokerdesign
10-24-2009, 06:41 AM
I was reading on the cPanel forum and it does seem like there might be a way that a value can be changed on a per account level with modifications to the program. Perhaps this is something we can request WestHost to add. :)

LWC
10-24-2009, 03:42 PM
Until then, that one line could save a lot of time for everyone. The way I see it, UTF-8 is the default and anything else is a custom requirement.

epicheirimatias
10-26-2009, 07:16 AM
I've been testing VPS.net for a few days, and it's really GREAT. There's no limitations of what you can do. You can do whatever you want.

BUT...there's cons. It's not as easy as WestHost VPS. Depending on what you want to do, for example making wpmu run, on WestHost it was just a matter of sending support a message to modify wildcard, but since VPS.net is not a managed service, you have to do it youself, BIND and DNS (virtualhost) modification manually.

I've been spending a few days, googling how to manage such using SSH, which I've never done before. This is really a hard work. They have ISPmanager, which helps you set these easily, but following ispmanager support doesn't solve, so I've been trying to manually set these.

Anyway, if you know about linux, and you are still worried about moving to VPS.net, then GO and MOVE NOW.

If you don't know linux like me, need the same level of support WestHost provides, don't move, stay here, or if that's not the option, you'll be on a floating boart in the middle of ocean to find other good quality host.

Aegis PI
11-13-2009, 03:18 PM
At first I thought about just quietly slipping away and finding a new host provider. The reason for that is Im not a techie and I dont want to be. I dont have the time. I run a Private Investigations company. I want to park my website and let the hosting company take care of its security.

There is a lot of talk about VPS.net being 'unmanaged' and not to worry becuase its not that hard to figure out. Well that may be but I am willing to bet managing and looking after a VPS is a full time job. A job I dont want.

Lets set aside the issue of going from $8.95/mo for a managed service to $20/mo for an unmanaged service for a minute and get right down to it...

Will any managed plans be available?

WestHost - CReeves
11-13-2009, 03:33 PM
Aegis PI,

In answer to your question yes VPS.NET is providing a managed solution. As you may have guessed it comes with an extra cost. VPS.NET is extremely competitive when it comes to the VPS marketplace. However, its not going to be able to compete with some of the cheap shared hosting providers.

I'd recommend that you give WestHost 4.0 a try unless you know that it is not going to meet your needs. We've certainly tried to do our best to accomodate as many as we can either through WestHost 4.0 or VPS.NET. I hope that you will seriously, consider one of these options. If you have additional questions I would highly recommend that you contact our Sales team so we can better address your concerns.

Aegis PI
11-13-2009, 03:44 PM
Clint,

Thanks for the quick response. My needs are simple. I want to be able to park my website somewhere, log on the site manager or control panel somewhere and make what ever minor changes are needed. Beyond that I want to email someone who can fix the major things.

We have been with WH for 3 years now. www.aegispi.com doesnt use much resources. I can give you the numbers offline if needed. Are you telling me that for us WestHost isnt going anywhere and WH4.0 is simply an upgrade?

Doug

WestHost - CReeves
11-16-2009, 12:40 PM
Aegis PI,

Yes, that is correct. WestHost is not going anywhere. Existing clients will be upgraded to WestHost 4.0 in the coming months. More information will be released concerning these details as we plan the migration from WH 3.0 to WH 4.0. WestHost will do this upgrade oruselves on our end once that time comes down the road.

While there are differences in WH 3.0 vs. WH 4.0 most of these differences are considered upgrades. Here is a rough idea of some of the differences: http://www.westhost.com/30to40comparison.html

This is not all encompassing but it highlights some of the changes with the new WestHost platform.